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	<title>Comments on: BLIP: Come &#8216;n&#8217; get it!</title>
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	<description>Little boxes made of words, by Jens Alfke</description>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-2647</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:47:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/#comment-2647</guid>
		<description>Look at that, I just needed to read one more post. That was great instant satisfaction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look at that, I just needed to read one more post. That was great instant satisfaction.</p>
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		<title>By: Jens Alfke</title>
		<link>http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-2646</link>
		<dc:creator>Jens Alfke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 06:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/#comment-2646</guid>
		<description>twobyte — No, it was not possible; not within my time constraints. BEEP is a much more complicated protocol and I did not want to have to implement it. You know people create new protocols not just for fun?

In my case, as described in recent blog posts, I had run into serious problems with the BEEP implementation I&#039;d been using for five months. I considered how much time I&#039;d already dumped into fixing and improving that library (and how awful its code was to work with) and decided that I had to rip it out and use something else. But there wasn&#039;t anything else available. So I was left with writing my own. And I did not have the time or energy to attempt to implement the BEEP protocol, so I sat down and worked out a minimal set of features that I needed, and decided on the easiest way to represent them, in kind of a BEEP-like way, in a protocol.

If you really want to use BEEP, then go have a look at Vortex. Just be aware that the source code is very ugly C, it uses more threads than it needs to, it doesn&#039;t implement the whole BEEP protocol (very limited MIME support) and by omitting MIME headers it happens to be fatally incompatible with any compliant BEEP implementation.

Or you could just write your own BEEP framework in Obj-C. But either way, stop bugging me about what I decided to do, for my own purposes, and then kindly shared with the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>twobyte — No, it was not possible; not within my time constraints. BEEP is a much more complicated protocol and I did not want to have to implement it. You know people create new protocols not just for fun?</p>
<p>In my case, as described in recent blog posts, I had run into serious problems with the BEEP implementation I&#8217;d been using for five months. I considered how much time I&#8217;d already dumped into fixing and improving that library (and how awful its code was to work with) and decided that I had to rip it out and use something else. But there wasn&#8217;t anything else available. So I was left with writing my own. And I did not have the time or energy to attempt to implement the BEEP protocol, so I sat down and worked out a minimal set of features that I needed, and decided on the easiest way to represent them, in kind of a BEEP-like way, in a protocol.</p>
<p>If you really want to use BEEP, then go have a look at Vortex. Just be aware that the source code is very ugly C, it uses more threads than it needs to, it doesn&#8217;t implement the whole BEEP protocol (very limited MIME support) and by omitting MIME headers it happens to be fatally incompatible with any compliant BEEP implementation.</p>
<p>Or you could just write your own BEEP framework in Obj-C. But either way, stop bugging me about what I decided to do, for my own purposes, and then kindly shared with the world.</p>
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		<title>By: twobyte</title>
		<link>http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-2645</link>
		<dc:creator>twobyte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 05:01:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/#comment-2645</guid>
		<description>Jens, I understand that you have Apple&#039;s mentality, but was it possible that you could develop &quot;BLIP&quot; within BEEP framework? You know people write down RFCs not just for fun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jens, I understand that you have Apple&#8217;s mentality, but was it possible that you could develop &#8220;BLIP&#8221; within BEEP framework? You know people write down RFCs not just for fun.</p>
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		<title>By: Jens Alfke</title>
		<link>http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-2644</link>
		<dc:creator>Jens Alfke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 21:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/#comment-2644</guid>
		<description>twobyte — it doesn&#039;t implements any RFCs. I just made it up a few weeks ago. Of course, if people find it useful and it gets used, it might be worth documenting it as an RFC at some point.

If you need a protocol like this that&#039;s been standardized, look at BEEP. (But be warned that BLIP came about precisely because of my dissatisfaction with available BEEP implementations.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>twobyte — it doesn&#8217;t implements any RFCs. I just made it up a few weeks ago. Of course, if people find it useful and it gets used, it might be worth documenting it as an RFC at some point.</p>
<p>If you need a protocol like this that&#8217;s been standardized, look at BEEP. (But be warned that BLIP came about precisely because of my dissatisfaction with available BEEP implementations.)</p>
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		<title>By: twobyte</title>
		<link>http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-2643</link>
		<dc:creator>twobyte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 19:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/#comment-2643</guid>
		<description>What RFC&#039;s do BLIP implements? Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What RFC&#8217;s do BLIP implements? Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob Rix</title>
		<link>http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-2637</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob Rix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/#comment-2637</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t blame you for not using BEEP. I got a long ways into a BEEP implementation in ObjC/CFNetwork before we stopped development on the project in question; it was fascinating but insanely complex and I never got the hang of the SSL stuff.

I think the majority of peer-to-peer applications could do with the simpler heuristics of BLIP—so well done indeed!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t blame you for not using BEEP. I got a long ways into a BEEP implementation in ObjC/CFNetwork before we stopped development on the project in question; it was fascinating but insanely complex and I never got the hang of the SSL stuff.</p>
<p>I think the majority of peer-to-peer applications could do with the simpler heuristics of BLIP—so well done indeed!</p>
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		<title>By: Jens Alfke</title>
		<link>http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-2642</link>
		<dc:creator>Jens Alfke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 23:08:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/#comment-2642</guid>
		<description>Brian — &lt;a href=&quot;http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/04/cloudy-networking/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This is what I had in mind&lt;/a&gt;. (Or  you might want to start back at &lt;a href=&quot;http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/04/cloudy-as-buzzwords/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the beginning of that thread&lt;/a&gt;.) BLIP has now replaced BEEP in Cloudy.

BLIP is good for sending large numbers of lightweight request/response pairs, or for large interleaved requests (since it&#039;s better at pipelining than most HTTP implementations.) It also provides both sides of the connection symmetrically, whereas with HTTP you need a separate client and server.

Phone-to-phone sounds like it would work OK with Bonjour; but from what I&#039;m told, the cell carriers don&#039;t allow incoming TCP connections over EDGE.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brian — <a href="http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/04/cloudy-networking/" rel="nofollow">This is what I had in mind</a>. (Or  you might want to start back at <a href="http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/04/cloudy-as-buzzwords/" rel="nofollow">the beginning of that thread</a>.) BLIP has now replaced BEEP in Cloudy.</p>
<p>BLIP is good for sending large numbers of lightweight request/response pairs, or for large interleaved requests (since it&#8217;s better at pipelining than most HTTP implementations.) It also provides both sides of the connection symmetrically, whereas with HTTP you need a separate client and server.</p>
<p>Phone-to-phone sounds like it would work OK with Bonjour; but from what I&#8217;m told, the cell carriers don&#8217;t allow incoming TCP connections over EDGE.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-2641</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 21:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/#comment-2641</guid>
		<description>This looks pretty interesting. What kind of applications do you see this working well for? What did you have in mind when you created this protocol?

I am interested in doing some phone to phone networking on the iPhone for a simple turn based game. Do you think that BLIP would be well suited?

Thanks
Brian</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This looks pretty interesting. What kind of applications do you see this working well for? What did you have in mind when you created this protocol?</p>
<p>I am interested in doing some phone to phone networking on the iPhone for a simple turn based game. Do you think that BLIP would be well suited?</p>
<p>Thanks<br />
Brian</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Roepcke</title>
		<link>http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-2640</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Roepcke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 19:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Are you planning on combining this with your Cocoa coroutine/actor work?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you planning on combining this with your Cocoa coroutine/actor work?</p>
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		<title>By: Jens Alfke</title>
		<link>http://jens.mooseyard.com/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/comment-page-1/#comment-2639</link>
		<dc:creator>Jens Alfke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 16:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2008/05/blip-come-n-get-it/#comment-2639</guid>
		<description>Mike — That depends on the platform! If it has a framework with comparable functionality, as Ruby/Python/Java/.NET do, then it should be pretty easy.

The details of the protocol are in the file &quot;BLIP/BLIP Overview.txt&quot;. It was hastily written, but I think everything needed is in there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike — That depends on the platform! If it has a framework with comparable functionality, as Ruby/Python/Java/.NET do, then it should be pretty easy.</p>
<p>The details of the protocol are in the file &#8220;BLIP/BLIP Overview.txt&#8221;. It was hastily written, but I think everything needed is in there.</p>
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